W-What+we+Want+to+know...

What We Want to Know  Directions: This page is intentionally left blank so that we can ask any questions that come to mind about ELD curriculum. Feel free to add a question or share your thoughts about others' questions .


 * We love the flow of everyone's important questions. These questions are all valid and appropriate questions about ELD. One reminder though, because of our class content, we should try to stick with wonderings related to curriculum (not necessarily strategies). Keep the conversation going though, we don't want it to stop!** **

How do schools with very small ELL populations manage to provide ELD instruction? Do they provide ELD instruction? (Sandy)

Hi Sandy - absolutely! There was a time when my school had a very small population. What we did was group the students by CELDT level and then concentrated them in just a few classrooms. Teachers would take turns being the ELD instructor. This freed up other teachers to do interventions. Even if there are only three ELLs in your school, by law, they must receive 30 minutes of ELD instruction daily. (Marcie)

Hi Marcie, I can relate to that. This is exactly the way my school does it as well. This was a great strategy. Especially in the upper grades where level 1s and 2s are not as many students, we combine these students to make a small class (Sonya)

Hi Sandy, We do what teachers did at Marcie's school. Since we have 8 ELs in all of upper grade, each upper grade teacher with an EL takes a turn teaching the students 30 minutes a day. We switch at the end of each unit. (Dana)

At our school, if parents indicate that a language other than English is used at home on registration forms, we automatically plug them in to our Systematic ELD program. Even in cases where an ESL student's English language skills may be superior than that of a native English speaker, we are still required to classify the ESL student as an English Language Learner. As soon as students achieve fluency, they receive the same core instruction as the native speakers during our block of Systematic ELD time. Those who are not fluent, receive Systematic language instruction for 30 minutes each day, which means they miss out on the core content that the native English Speakers receive. I have long felt that our "screening" practice, which determines who is and is not an English Language Learner, seems a bit arbitrary at best, and discriminatory at worst, since many of our native English speakers also struggle with language acquisition and therefore probably couldn't pass the CELDT test because of it's rigor. I apologize for the lengthy intro, but is this approach to designation supported by research? (Dionne) 

Hi Dionne - That is a good question. I don't know the answer, unfortunately, but let's put it out to the others -- Anyone?? (Marcie)

Is ELD instruction also considered SDAIE? OR is SDAIE just one of the strategies used in ELD instruction? (Kaitlynn)

Hi Kaitlynn- This is a good question. SDAIE and ELD are the same because they are both used to develop academic language, they both use mutli-sensory approaches, and they maintain a low affective filter. However, they are different. ELD are lessons that must be taught at students' Language Development level with the main focus being the acquisition of language development. The focus is on oral language, writing, reading and listening skills. On the other hand, SDAI teaching strategies are used with students of mixed ELD levels and its main focus is to help students achieve content knowledge in academic subjects. (Lupe)

That is interesting! I remember learning all of this, but if you don't use it, you lose it! All these acronyms are so easy to forget. Thank you for the clarification. I hope that this was a type of question you were looking for! (Kaitlynn) **

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 * What information is used to make an informed decision about the appropriate placement of English Learners for ELD classes? Also, who decides on the placement of these students? (Amy Anderson) **======

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I know this one! EL students are given a CELDT test (California English language development test) at the beginnng of each school year and are given a score 1-5 I think, and until they reach the English Proficient level they continue to be classified as ELs.I am curious how much teacher's rely on CELDT scores when developing their curriculum? Is it required that they use the scores when forming groups and developing the curriculum, or do they use their own judgement on knowing their own students English proficiency? (Tracy Algorri) ======

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Tracy - At our school we are very strict about their CELDT levels. We MUST know, off of the top of our head, which level each student is at, because curriculum varies. When using the Dutro materials, we develop our lessons from their level of proficiency. The program is divided by CELDT level so if you clump students together it compromises the program. I think it is a mistake to use your own judgment regarding English proficiency. Basic interpersonal communication can be very high but academic language could be just developing. I believe the CELDT test does accurately assess their level, and, now that I administer most of it myself, I feel it is administered fairly. (Marcie ) ======

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Hi Tracy-We also give some value to teacher input to help with placing the students. We usually do this for some of the lower performing students who cannot pass the CELDT to move levels or test out of ELD. For example, I have two students who have been in the same ELD level for 2 years. They can read, write, speak and listen to English, but are academically low and receive help through Resource. Including teacher input prevents them from having to repeat the same level for 2 or 3 years in a row. (Valerie) ======

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Hi Amy - At our school site we determine the levels of students in our classroom. We generally go by the prior year's CELDT scores because that is all we have. Once the new scores come in, we adjust our groups. We then look at CELDT levels and grade levels. 6th grade students shouldn't be placed with 4th graders, and "1's" shouldn't be with "3's". We do our best to make even groups but sometimes a teacher has more students than another group. The teachers at our school make these decisions. (Marcie)======

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Hi Amy - Another assessment tool that is used is the Susan Dutro's Express Assessment. The the student are asked a series of questions about the activities in a picture. They are given points based on their responses, which are supposed to be grammatically correct and in complete sentences. We used this at our site this year because the CEDLT results that we had in the fall were almost a year old. (Lupe) ======

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What is the consensus regarding sheltered classes for EL learners who have not FEPd out? And what research out there proves that mainstreaming EL learners (Early Intermediate and up) is beneficial for the EL learner? (Catherine) Catherine, I wish we had the funds to have sheltered classes for EL learners where all students are LEP, which is the intent behind sheltered english instruction. That way language proficiency is never assumed and the lessons are tailored for the LEP student. LEP students need to develop their cognitive academic language proficiency (CALP) in order to make sense of academic language in context-reduced situations (Cummins, 1979, 1981) It is important for educators to remember to develop CALP in all lessons. (Marcie) ======

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I wonder what content areas are easiest for curriculum developers to integratde ELD instruction into? (Lisa) Lisa, in my experience, I have found that the content area that we receive the most ELD support in is language arts. The other content areas provide summaries in their home language and activities for ELLs but there isn't much in the way of supplemental materials like there is in language arts. (Marcie ) Hi Lisa, many of the supplemental materials do not come in Korean, which is the language all of my ELLs currently have as their first language. In addition to Language Arts, I like to try to integrate ELD instruction into Social Studies and Science. I feel that there is so much vocabulary and many new concepts, that if they are receiving ELD instruction with that content, they get more exposure and practice with the material. (Valerie) ====== I have the same opinion as Marcie. Language Arts seems to be the easiest to integrate with. Mostly, probably because LA involves so much Listening, Speaking, and Writing. And as we know, these are things that many of our ELD programs stress.(HK)

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I teach at a junior high. I taught a Basic ELD class that was supposed to be for newcomers, but there were students in there who were born here in the US, and had lived here for 12 - 13 years, but were still testing at the beginning level in the CELDT usually on the reading and writing portions. Obviously these students have other issues besides language that need to be addressed. What can the elementary schools do to make sure those kids don't end up in a class for beginners at the junior high level? (Connie) ======

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Connie, sometimes, even though they are born here, Spanish is the language spoken at home. I have lots of students who were born here, are now in fourth grade, and are only at the 2nd or 3rd level of proficiency. Some have other issues (those at the beginning level, as you stated) but most of them are just working on the nuances of the language. Other than that, as far as I know, there is nothing we can do at this point to keep 13 year olds out of the beginning CELDT level. That should change!! (Marcie) ====== I wanted to add a comment about integrating curriculum for ELD instruction...First off, it seems so foreign to me to hear that many of you have very few ELD labeled students. I have only known schools with large populations of ELs. With that being said I find it so hard to believe that some teachers at these schools still do not alter assignments or rubrics for projects. They insist that everyone no matter what their level should have the same expectations. I personally feel this is unrealistic with such a diverse population in every class. How are students able to measure their growth if everytime they fall at the bottom of the grading scale? I think integrating an ELD curriculum can be flexible and (usually) it can benefit the entire class. (Melissa)

Hi Melissa - Honestly, I hate to "water down" a rubric to match a student's ability level. I would rather pull a small group and work on the project together so the child can reach the goal, albeit with assistance. When we do mission reports, I give my EL students as well as my resource students, Missions San Juan Capistrano because we visit there. We do the project together while the other students are working independently. That way they have a similar product and learn how to produce quality work. They also have something to contribute when the docent asks the students questions. (Marcie)  <span style="color: #800080; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Communicating with Parents Questions I teach 5th grade in the Fullerton District and I've had a couple of scenarios to share. My first year teaching, I had a very irate mom that came in to discuss with me about why her son was in ELD. I had to ask our ELD coach to obtain the first paper she signed stating her son's first language was another language other than English, before speaking with her again. After showing her, she still did not want her son in ELD even after I showed her the signed form. The student was testing at the Early Intermediate CELDT level and I was not ready to RFEP him. Has anyone else encountered this and do parents have the right to say that did not know what they were signing? On the opposite end, I've had English Only students, who have told me that their first language was another language other than English. In this case, as a teacher, are we allowed to ask the parent(s) to look over the same form, but with a translator and have them request for their child to be in ELD? (Devi) Hi Devi, Ditto with those types of problems. I talked to the Fullerton School District ELD Coordinator about it, and they said that the first Home Language Survey that is filled out supercedes all others, so if you have proof that a parent listed a primary language other than English, that child is given the CELDT test and whatever score they get stands**, but a parent has the right to opt their child out of ELD.** (Connie) Do they really? I had no idea. I know that at my school we have also had issues with the Home Language Survey results. And I // do // know is that it is our school goal (as part of our Single School Plan) to move those ELD students up a level each year. This goal was not made by the teachers, but rather it's more a directive from the powers that be (aka District Office). (Catherine) Hi Catherine, Yes, parents really do have the right to opt their child out of ELD. In Fullerton the parents must sign a waiver requesting this. I assume that would be similar for all districts. They must provide proof that they offered the appropriate services to the English Learner, but the parent refused those services. (Connie)

Hi Devi, I've had the same things happen to me. Parents think that if their child is in ELD they are "low-achieving" or not receiving the same education as the other students. I remind that that they are receiving ELD services because their child needs it and the school is providing something that their child will benefit from. I also remind them that their child will test out when their performance proves so. This usually calms them down when they know it's not a "permanent" thin. Also, about asking the parents to look over the form, I always thought it as we can't ask them, but then again you should check with your principal. I think that allude them to put their child in ELD unwillingly. However, you should get advice from your principal. Also, I think a lot of times, especially in primary, all students are ELLs! (Sonya)

Devi, I have had both of those scenarios. Sometimes the parents deliberately say that English is the home language so their child isn't in ELD! They think they are "missing something" when they are pulled for ELD. I think if a child belongs in ELD it is easier to get them in than it is to get them out. As far as having a parent take another look at the Home Language Survey, I would think that would be acceptable but I would check with your principal first. (Marcie)

I have also experienced the situation Devi described regarding the Home Language Survey. I do think parents don't always understand the implications of what they are signing. However if they did, some of them might not be honest. That would also create problems. At my school many of the English Only students are not exposed to a rich vocabulary at home, so they also have deficients in English and can benefit from ELD. (Susan)

<span style="color: #0000ff; font-family: 'Comic Sans MS',cursive;">I would like to know how many different programs/curriculums there are out there to teach ELD. It seems that I have heard of so many! Can you start making a list? (Rachel) Dutro Carousel of Ideas Open Court Avenues <span style="color: #035e29; font-family: 'Comic Sans MS',cursive;">I would like to know a little bit more about strategies to keep the ELD students progressing while not letting them fall behind in the mainstreamed classroom. How can you balance the two (progressing their language skills while teaching the curriculum)? (Heather S)

<span style="color: #800080; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Loretta - try putting the shoe on the other foot - A good friend of mine is currently in China - making big business deals for development and building amusement parks, casinos... He speaks - and understands - NOT ONE WORD of Chinese. We have been skyping daily - I think he just wants some-one to talk to :-). Clearly, he is a successful businessman but he is now forced to sit in meetings - with high powered Chinese businessmen and diplomats and feel like the outsider - totally dependent on an interpretter - to make him look like he has valuable contributions. I know this doesn't have to do with curriculum per se - but it makes me think how we need to make curriculum accessible and by doing so, give ALL students an opportunity to show their understanding of content and knowledge - so how do we do this as part of our curriculum planning?

Hi Loretta: In our research we found that all single subject teachers are responsible for teaching the academic language and content vocabulary necessary for ELs to understand the curriculum. Ideally we could teach them in their own language because we know from CLAD that students transfer any knowledge acquired in their own language (basic underlying proficiency). Since that isn't practical, it is important to bring in realia and use all of the GLAD strategies in our lessons to make concepts accessible for them. They can show their understanding by orally explaining answers and demonstrating knowledge by drawing pictures or making power point presentations with downloaded pictures. (Marcie)

I have a question about the creation of the ELD curriculum that is used, WHEN it is used. We all did interviews of curriculum specialists, did anyone come across an expert in the ELD field? Is there a separate special team for ELD curriculum than the general curriculum? (Brenda Q.)

Hi Brenda! I know that the district I work for (Fullerton) has an ELD specialist/coordinator working at the district. I happen to know her and was going to conduct the interview on her but she then told me that Mrs. D'Arrigo was the curriculum specialist for all subjects and that I would benefit from interviewing her instead but if I needed any other information she was more than happy to help. However, she shared that she is responsible to attend committees along with someone else (can't recall her title at this time) to gather information from state and help the district with making decisions of the ELD curriculum that should be implemented at our district. I also know that she plans and trains teachers in ELD. Some schools also have ELD coaches. ~Eva

I s there any research to show whether or not ELD lessons take needed time away from non-ELD students or vice versa? (Bre Bre, I have not seen much research that says anything about this. I have, however had discussions with teachers about it. It seems that it really just depends on the program used, and how well it is used. If teachers only use it half-heartedly, it probably WILL take away from non-ELD students. Hopefully, this is not the case though. I'd like to know how to spice up my ELD time. Because I usually teach a group of 22-28 students, it's hard to keep them engaged. They love technology so we have done a number of lessons on various topics they are interested in with products like keynotes and brochures, the problem then becomes how to have them complete each product; a one weeks lesson turns into two plus and many students still are finished when I need to move on. (Theresa Benveniste)